White wine glasses - another aspect of discrimination against women?

"white wines all seem to get the same shaped, smaller glass, while reds may come in different shapes and larger sizes." Quora

I prefer white wine to red. Many women do. It is rare to find a man who prefers white wine, although, it has to be said, that an increasing number of women prefer red. As a result I find that usually at any social gathering much more red wine is consumed - often of a pricier and higher quality than the white as well - though not always. Also as a result, the red wine is topped up frequently and discussed in a learned way with much swirling of the wine around copious glasses.

The few ladies, meanwhile, who drink the white are often forgotten. The white wine is in a cooler and since these take up space they are often not on the table like the red wine, but positioned on a table or sideboard somewhere not too far away. I can't count the number of times that I have had to fill my own glass. Which, of course, makes me look a bit like an alcoholic. For also, my glass is smaller, sometimes much smaller than the red glass and therefore needs topping up more frequently. I know that even though the glasses are of different size each serve of wine is supposed to be of the same quantity, but inevitably this is not the case. Mostly there is more red wine in the red wine glass than white wine in the white wine glass.

All of the above comments, of course, apply to home consumption. Restaurants do it it more correctly if only for financial reasons.

So is there a 'real' reason for why red wine glasses should be bigger, or is it just another thing about men - bigger is better basically? The 'male' dominance thing is epitomised by the following quote which is very similar to lots of others I saw, though this one at least is a bit more polite about the white wines, describing them as 'elegant'. A sop to women perhaps or just that it is written by a woman?

"Lighter, more elegant grape varieties and wine styles tend to benefit from smaller glasses. Fuller-bodied and more powerfully flavored wines usually like to flex their power in larger wine glasses." Christy Canterbury Kendall & Jackson

Though she doesn't really say what the benefit of a smaller glass is. Such statements often used words like power, full-bodied, and rich when referring to red. Whereas white is most usually referred to as 'light'. Which sort of means inconsequential and insubstantial to me. And yet, some of the greatest wines of the world are white. I know that New Zealand sauvignon blanc is no longer fashionable in the 'best' circles, but to me it is an astounding thing. Quite unique. And what about white Burgundy's or the best German rieslings and moselle. Or Chateau d'Yquem. (Yes I know it's a dessert wine, but it's white - well golden really.) Or gewürtztraminer from Alsace which I mention because this is what I drank yesterday. Or our own chardonnay. To me a white wine is capable of so many different flavours that are not always 'grapey'. Red wine is more uniform - just more or less rich or full-bodied. But I do willingly admit that I really don't have much of a connoisseur kind of palate.

I also found one interesting claim:

"I believe the main reason red wine glasses are traditionally bigger and fuller than glasses meant for whites is that the smaller glasses allow white wine to stay chilled longer. Plus, it signifies options and courses, which can be a nice touch." Dr. Vinny

Which, I have to say, makes me wonder whether 'Dr. Vinny' is a woman, Certainly you wouldn't want a stemless glass for a white wine because you'd be warming it up.

Back to the glasses though. I gather our notion of the shape of glasses has changed over the centuries and it's not just in the difference between the bowl kind of champagne glass and the flutes. Though I did see one champagne maker say that actually it was best drunk out of a 'normal' wine glass. The size has changed too.

"Wine glasses have increased in size from a capacity of 65ml 300 years ago to 450ml today and the change has encouraged us to drink far more than we should" Theresa Marteau

That is a significant, really significant difference. And the Daily Mail implied that women drank more, because:

"white wine is simply more 'drinkable' - i.e. we drink it faster and end up consuming more." Daily Mail

Which is, indeed, a worrying thought. I do find that I drink much less red wine than white wine - if I am drinking red wine that is. Red wine is heavier and somehow harder to drink. I probably drink more white wine in one sip than I do red. My current preference for white though,(apart from the lighter and more interesting taste) stems from an inability to drink red whilst pregnant (years and years ago) without being ill. This lasted for several years and the memory still lingers.

But back to the historical size of glasses. I don't think that we get drunker today than we did 300 years ago. I'm sure there was as much alcoholism back then as there is now. They must have just filled the glasses more frequently. Ditto for white and red today. I think the alcohol content is roughly the same.

One of my luncheon guests also maintained that back in the 60s it was the other way round - white were the big glasses and red the small. I can't say I remember this. Our wedding Orrefors glasses, though very untraditional in shape (halfway between stemless and stemmed) were very definitely big red and small white.

Today there is a bewildering array of glass shapes, as shown on this chart - and this one doesn't seem to include tall stemmed riesling/hock glasses - but maybe they are a historical thing too. What is noticeable is that once again white wine is almost ignored. There are just two kinds of white wine glasses as opposed to five red and three champagne.

Riedel have led the charge of course - even in the stemless glasses and here is Claus Riedel giving the justification for the different shapes - back in 1961 when he first started designing them.

"wide, open glass shapes require us to sip by lowering the head, whereas a narrow rim forces the head to tilt backwards so that the liquid flows. This delivers and positions the beverage to different 'taste zones' of the palate." Claus Riedel 1961

And these different 'taste zones' are crucial in the difference between red and white. My husband tells a story, which I suspect my faithful readers have heard, of visiting a local winery (Punch Lane) and tasting their pinot in an ordinary glass and a Riedel pinot glass and being struck by the difference in taste. And the estimable Felicity Cloake also experienced the same thing when she tested an Australian chardonnay.

"The effect on an Australian chardonnay is startling – out of the standard glass it's dull and heavy, reminiscent of a hundred underwhelming pub pours, but the design of the tailored glass spreads it evenly around my mouth, bringing out far more exciting flavours of pineapple, smoke, even minerality." Felicity Cloake

Another wine guru of the past - Raymond Postgate - maintains however that it's all totally unnecessary:

"there is only one satisfactory type of wine glass, and it will serve for any kind of wine. It is colourless, rather tulip-shaped, and the upper rim of the cup narrows." Raymond Postgate 1951

And indeed this is most probably what you will be drinking out of when you visit a winery. And also, most probably, the sort of shape of wine glass you have at home - unless you actually have Waterford crystal or Riedel. We have two Riedel pinot glasses which very rarely get used. Partly this is because they are really difficult to clean and they are enormous and we are worried about breaking them. But also because, really I think you need a really, really good quality wine to drink in them. We don't have many of them.

"I'm pretty sure that the right glassware can't make a bad wine good, but it can make a good wine more enjoyable. " Felicity Cloake

I also noted that one wine critic said that you should never drink a high quality wine out of an inferior glass. Which is possibly true. But then people who drink very high quality wine are either dining in a high quality restaurant that would do the 'right' thing, or they only have quality glasses anyway. In other words they are rich.

As usual I see I have strayed a bit from my initial topic - discrimination against women with respect to white wine and white wine glasses. I am now wondering whether I do drink too much. But I don't do it very often, and I certainly don't need to, so I don't think I qualify as an alcoholic. And am I looking for slights against women where none are intended? Well 'intended' is probably too strong a word. But unconscious discrimination - yes I think there is. Men like to be manly and white wine is not manly. Maybe particularly in Australia. Like most discrimination against women these days it's not overt but insidious. That's what I think anyway.